So I thought I'd review my list, and what worked and what didn't...
My list was:
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadierkompanie (Grey Wolf)
| Gepanzerte Panzergrenadierkompanie HQ (Confident Veterans) | |
| Add Panzershreck team | 125 |
| Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 3 sections | |
| Command Panzerfaust SMG team | 230 |
| Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 3 sections | |
| Command Panzerfaust SMG team | 230 |
| Schwere Panzer Platoon - Königstiger (Henschel) | 690 |
| Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 3 7.5cm PaK40 guns | 155 |
| Puma Panzerspäh Platoon - 3 Sd Kfz 234/2 (Puma) | 150 |
| Rocket Launcher Battery - 3 15cm NW41 | 105 |
| Warrior Dietrich von Saucken | 65 |
... and as previously explained, it was designed to go up against a horde of tough allied tanks lists, from the new Market Garden books... which didn't really materialise...
I only really had one game against an armoured opponent; Russells T34 horde, but in that game I struggled to get any decent lines of fire due to an excess of terrain on the board. As it happened it didn't really matter, as Russell pretty much broke himself upon me, like waves on a rock...
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| ... a "rock" ! |
In other games where the Paks and KTs had armoured targets they acquitted themselves well, but this only really happened in two of my games... so in the end, I have to say the two King Tigers were really a waste of points...
The Nebs performed adequately, as they usually do, nothing spectacular but always useful.
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| "Fun! - look at the mess I can make with these!" |
The Pumas again did what they could, but I often feel, a cheaper Recce platoon could achieve what they do. I wouldn't have the AT option of the Puma but that's not really the Puma's job! And once you commit the puma to firing, it is invariably knocked out in return fire...
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| Recce with a big gun! |
The Paks were predictably good against tanks but little use attacking against infantry for the most part...
So being a mechanised force I mostly found my list trying to attack Infantry companies, and invariably falling just short of the mark...
Whether I didn't have enough platoons, or couldn't motivate when necessary, I just didn't seem to have enough 'umph' to push it over the finish line.... so, this has made me have a rethink... which breaks down roughly like this...
I need to play to the Mechanised Companies strengths;
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| Mechanised mayhem! |
To my mind a mechanised company is designed to attack infantry, and do it quickly, swamping a defence with numbers and weight of fire, in as short a time as possible. The typical German combat platoon of 7 elements often isn't enough to carry the day, so you often need a tandem tag team with two platoons working together for the main attack. Having a third, will be able to tie down other enemy troops that would otherwise move to reinforce where the main attack is going in...This means having three combat platoons, or two plus a pioneer platoon.
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| Pioneer Stuka zu Fuss! Bring your own artillery with you! |
Next up, to attack successfully motivation is the key. Being Whermacht Heer, and thus 'Confident' means only a 50/50 chance to motivate, whether its to unpin, tank assault, keep fighting on through an assault or whatever... 50/50 is simply not good enough to reliably attack. Even with a CO or Higher Command reroll, it can still let you down...
So that means upping the morale of your troops. There's no guarantees in this game, ... I have recently witnessed both Brit Paras and Soviet Shtraf roll snake eyes for motivation at key times,... but a 3+ morale, with a reroll for a CO is much better odds to push on for that win... than I am used to with the regular Heer troops...
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Going SS, has positives and negatives...
The obvious positive is better quality troops, but the negative means these are more expensive in the game, thus meaning less points to spend on other required force elements. However, some of this can be mitigated when one studies the support platoon options for SS forces. These often get smaller 'quirky', platoon sizes, compared to the Heer forces, meaning you can still have a bit of recce or a bit of artillery, enough to get the job done, in a no frills sort of way.
Adding in an extra warrior higher command team, can also mean you can be reliably attacking over two areas at once, both with motivation rerolls, or if you lose a commander, you still have a back up...
Another bonus to SS forces is they often have additional special rules, so check your briefing, whether Totenkopf on the Eastern front or Das Reich or Hitlerjugend on the Western front... every little helps...
If you are forced in to the defensive against a tank force, just keep you heads down, and load up with Panzerfausts, and Panzershreks, and have a mobile tank platoon in support that can be your AT ambush... tank commanders tend to get a bit twitchy about assaulting crazy 'Faust men, or pioneers... it tends not to end well for them, especially if you can keep motivating to have a go back at them (3+ with a reroll), and even if your command 'faust team goes down, German 'mission tactics' means it swaps back into action with a team in command keeping the vital Panzerfaust alive through the assault...
Here's a sample list I have knocked out;
Grey Wolf.
SS Panzerkampfgruppe (Mechanised Battlegroup) Totenkopf
SS Panzerkampfgruppe HQ 2 x Panzerfaust SMG teams
Fearless Veteran
| Add 2 Panzershreck teams | 170 | ||||
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 3 sections | |||||
| Command Panzerfaust SMG team add Panzerfaust MG team | 280 | ||||
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 3 sections | |||||
| Command Panzerfaust SMG team add Panzerfaust MG team | 280 | ||||
| 375 | ||||
| SS Panzer platoon - 4 Panzer IV H | 400 | ||||
| SS Heavy Panzerspäh platoon - 2 Sd Kfz 231 8rads | 90 | ||||
| Rocket Launcher Battery - 3 15cm NW41 Fearless Trained | 90 | ||||
| Warrior Dietrich von Saucken | 65 |
This gives a 6 platoon force, with 3 core attacking platoons, lead by sufficient fast recce to push back any ambushes. Mobile tank support is available as is some artillery fire for smoke and pin requirements to aid the assault going in. And an extra higher command warrior, for rerolls, and an aid to getting early reserves. Simple, straight forward, and in your face!
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| 8Rad - useful, fast, cheap recce... |
And if I have to defend against armour, I have pioneers, all tank assault 4, and plenty of panzerfausts and panzershreks as a deterrent, and the 4 panzers will be an 8 shot ambush...
I have left out AAA as I feel this force is going to be mixing it with the enemy quickly so 'wave-offs' will likely occur, and the Nebs will have to luck it out! I don't have spare points to waste on Sporadic German air support.
I will no doubt experiment with subtle changes to the force, but I feel the core will remain the 3 combat platoons or 2 plus the pioneers, with the 8 Rad recce. I may play about with the number and type of panzers, the type of artillery and whether I try and squeeze in air support or not. Again this force list has a huge amount of support options available... identifying what will be key, to how you plan to play them, is the vital bit.... 'All killer, no filler' ... is a helpful mantra...
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| Totenkopf |
[There are other 'flavours' of SS troops; eg Wiking from Grey Wolf, who are rated Fearless Trained... I haven't quite nutted these guys out as yet... to me it seems a little odd to be able to motivate for the assault, only to fluff the attack rolls, being trained... I have also read that trained troops make good shooty armies, as they would be less expensive in points allowing you to get more troops with thus a greater volume of fire. I guess making them Fearless aids in unpinning to keep firing? Still not sure with these guys as yet...]
-----o0o-----
Wait, whats that... the pitter patter of footsteps fading into the distance... no doubt a bunch of soviet spetznatz have been viewing my forces assembly area and will now be reporting back to Red command... ;-)
Have I just given the game away and spoiled the surprise! ? ;-)
POSTSCRIPT DISCLAIMER
Please note this is a gaming blog about playing with toy soldiers. I am not politically advocating nor glorifying SS 'activities' in any way - but do have a respect for the high morale and combat effectiveness of the Waffen SS troops during the hostilities of WWII...
Interesting thoughts there - one question you have to ask yourself is will you enjoy playing SS? I know you really like your GePzGr so if being SS as well works for you then go for it. Think your right about the Paks and Pumas - PF infantry are good vs. most armour particularly if your veterans. One thing Im considering is how to add a 2nd template option to the shooting phase to support the Nebs. To this end the Stuka zu is a solid option (plus the model looks cool). If your planning on having the ability to attack in 2 directions then a 2nd template will be necessary.
ReplyDeleteWill wait to see where you go...
... Soviets?!?
Thanks for your comments John.
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned in the disclaimer, I am not really playing 'the SS', I am playing toy soldiers with a stat line and abilities that will hopefully allow my force to function as I feel it should, so I'm cool with it...
Besides in any game, its always cool to 'play the bad guys' ... I guess if you're gonna play Germans , you may as well go the whole hog! ;-)
Yeah I have looked at tweaking the force, swap out pioneers for a cheaper 3rd GPG, lose the StukazuFuss, drop panzers to 3, drop nebs to 2, add hummels / air / mortars whatever to get those extra templates... lots of options around the 3 core platoons...
-----o0o-----
The Soviet reference was to the 'spy in the camp'; Paul... I recently tweaked the blogs settings so Paul can see the articles I am drafting out before I post them..., and vice versa...
I don't think I will ever chose to play Soviets, they just don't appeal...
Hummels are golden as artillery or AT - RE: Playing the SS its more about the fluff i.e. do the lists and their play style interest you rather than do you "like the SS". I dont have any particular affinity with Canada but like the new Canadian lists so went with them.
DeleteYeah I like the Hummels (have 4), though rarely use them due to points cost... would like to try and fit them in my lists more often...
DeleteThe SS fluff certainly makes for interesting reading and I am hoping to find a 'dynamic' playing style with them... was going to try a Hitlerjugend list out against Pauls Paras tonight, but the quake has got the women folk jittery and want us to stay home tonight...
The new Canadian lists are certainly good - one of the things I expected to see at CTA that never materialised...
Hitler Jugend vs. Canadians would definately be a good historical match up. Ill have my Canadians ready for next years CTA see you with them then
DeleteIt will of course buying and painting lots more little guys, so that's all good. I have followed your battles with your mechanised force with interest and it is interesting reading your analysis of what you need on motivation, and with assaults to make it work. Steve is developing a mechanised US force (Hell on Wheels) and I think the same issues will confront him: hw to get into combat quickly and effectively and playing to the force's strengths. On another note, I am adding transports in with my Brts so I will start to get familiar with transport and troop movements.
ReplyDeleteAh, that's the thing with German Grens, you can pretty much use them to represent all Germans troops, I am not especially concerned about painting all those SS camo smocks... lots of my panzergrenadier troops have them already, so there's quite a decent ragtag look to them anyway , as befits Late war...
DeleteArmoured transports can be a devil to play right, and can be vulnerable. You really need to either keep them concealed through the advance, or go with numbers and present a target rich environment, especially with the Yanks - yep some will get hit, meaning others left unmolested to get through...
Always interesting reading your thoughts to get some ideas. As Dan said some stuff to think about with my US Hell On Wheels force, wondering if I should go spearhead confident trained or for the cooler name Hell On Wheels confident veteran. Although more of a tank company, which still presents a problem because, as cool as tanks are they seem to get destroyed in a ball of flame. I need to read up some good strategies for my tanks.
ReplyDeleteConfident Trained will give you more troops on the board, and thus be a very 'shooty army' especially with the Yanks stuff that comes festooned with 50cals, but they will be less effective with anything needing skill checks; digging in, unbogging, and hitting in assault, but will have more numbers to make up for that...
DeleteYank Shermans will always be vulnerable to German AT fire, but get stabilisers which makes them useful shooting on the move, again you may be able to make numbers count over your opponent... the more dice you throw the greater chances of a hit...
Some good thoughts, thanks. I agree Yanks do have a lot of fire power, I am thinking maybe this means I will be best with spearhead confident trained and play to that advantage ,using my mortar and priests to use smoke when needed to give concealment from AT guns. The stabilizers are a very nice addition. I will play around with both anyhow and see what works best.
DeleteNice set of battle reports Scott. I can see the attraction of playing with Fearless troops but I think your list will really struggle without more AT. Picture yourself playing Russell or Sheps lists from CTA, in any mission, with your new list. What happens when the Panzer IVs are dead (which they will be very quickly)? Game over - four is not enough. I'd much perfer another four Panzer IVs to the Pioneers.
ReplyDeleteWhen I've run German mechanised forces successfully (Lehr 1st, Wiking 4th and 12th SS 4th) I have relied on either four Panthers (the first two) or three Tigers (12th SS) for the AT work. The Lehr force, being confident, could fit in three Pak 40s for those pesky defensive battles and to cover the Panthers flanks. My other 'trick' is to only use one full combat platoon with attached Panzerschrecks. That gives you a hard-hitting spearpoint of a size 10 platoon with four Panthers and recon in support.
Have a look at Barkmann and build around him - or perhaps an SS Panzer list where you can take your beloved Gepanzerts as a combat choice...
Hey Bede thanks for your input.
DeleteI must admit at this stage I am just trying to get one aspect of my game right... beat infantry...
I have been playing these GPGs for 2 years now, at least a game a week, and I have won maybe a dozen games..., so I am not expecting to become a tournament champ over night, I simply don't think its in me...
If I can beat infantry and hang on against armour, I'll be happy, at this stage... to be honest, with tanks, the only thing that scares me, are Soviet breakthrough guns, anything else and odds are your infantry staying GTG in foxholes will outlast them until they get pissed off and assault, and then all the panzerfausts and panzerschreks come into play, and hopefully rerolling motivation on a 3+ during the tank assault, I'll clear up a few tank platoons too... thats my guess at this stage anyway...
I am reluctant to drop below three combat platoons or 2 plus pios, as two never seem to be enough to get the job done, invariably one gets whacked on the way in whether by AT, Arty or planes, then your are down to one, and you are pushing shit uphill after that... so three seems key to me... Pios are good having flamethrowers too, auto kills teams, or blinds tanks, and aids getting a pin for assault...
I am not saying I have all the answers, I am just trying to get one aspect of the game working reliably...
Yeah I found Lehr interesting to use certainly, but I really like the idea of SS for the 3+ motivation...
Barkmann seems terribly overpriced and a bit 'gamey' to be honest...
I really want to see the Mech work themsleves with Panzer support not the other way round, and I am still wary of the new allied AT arsenal, which if its going to knock out Panthers with ease then I may aswell be running around in cheaper P4s...,yep they'll die, but they are soaking up hits from the mech, which means either they still have their heads down timing you out in a defensive battle, or allowing them to get forward into assault positions and on with the assault...
As I said in above discussion its going to be a work in progress to see what works with this list...
PS I still think Lehr are the best option if you want to run Gepanzerts in tournaments :)
ReplyDeleteWho'd be a German commander, what a stressful life?! The Para's are ready and waiting, and when you want to try defending the Soviets will be coming ;-)
ReplyDeleteLOL, who's a smug little bunny then!? ;-)
DeleteI'm simply offering my ongoing assistance in the quest for German list perfection. If most of the Germans die in the process, well, I can't be held responsible for that... :-)
DeleteThere is a small problem with this overall premise, and that is that, even if I do come up with the perfect list, sadly this particular player, is far from perfect, so the end result for my Teutonic forces will invariably be disaster...!
DeleteActually, those are perfect lists to try my ideas out against - if I can attack and win against Paras (excellent defenders), and defend against Soviet hordes (overwhelming attackers), then I'll be happy!
I agree with Bede- 4 panzer IVs just doesn’t cut it. However, almost all my LW German forces have taken 4 panzer IVs over the years but they are always supported by 4x marder II- the synergy between the two is excellent.
ReplyDeleteMy experience with armoured PGs is mainly midwar- and have done well with them, but I think your analysis is flawed.
The key is not rushing in early with armoured pgs, its properly prepping your point of attack, husbanding your valuable armoured pgs and making a surgical strike at the right moment. Your ability to switch the point of attack is also handy and allows you to redeploy quickly. The issue with me forces (in half tracks especially) is simple:
1. Infantry forces must be built to defend vs a tankovy or other tank company and so have enough AT assets to deal with pseudo armour (i.e half tracks)
2. Armoured companies have enough tanks to deal with your pseudo infantry.
End result you are at a disadvantage vs both!
In a mech force every platoon needs work together, you have to try to cover most of your bases with the minimum of force.
Although lehr is a sensible option more style points in regular pgs- however some serious AT support (such as the panthers) is useful to dominate the table and the third platoon, while nice is a luxury that I would struggle to add.
I’d go with the original force with panthers rather than go fearless, or look at adding marders and a couple of pak 40s. Panzer pios are cool but far too dear for what you get so if you need a third platoon try to find something cheap and on foot- foot pioneers (or even FJ) maybe?
Craig
Craig, thanks for your thoughts.
DeleteI like the idea of adding marders, but most GPG LateWars forces cant take them for some reason...
I hear what you are saying, and echo your thoughts, most of the time my mech forces are trying to deal with both infantry and armour, and usually end up doing neither very well... which was why I thought about just making sure I can deal one well, and hang on against the other...
Again I hear what you are saying about not rushing in, but again have found that if I hang about, I just start getting whacked by templates... lose a few teams, get pinned down and then you can forget trying to mount an effective assault... If you spread out to avoid templates, invariably something gets hit by Direct AT fire, and same result occurs...
I have had very few positive experiences with these troops... but keep playing them as I like the look of the half tracks...
Adding foot troops to support the mech, would just slow the mech down, losing their mobility? That seems the wrong synergy to me?
I'll muddling along and see what happens... The panthers are good deal, but again an issue now is against the upgunned fireflies etc... what to do???
LW is a whole different kettle of fish I guess and most of my experience is vs MW forces and artillery parks are less common.
DeletePity about Marders + panzer IVs- its a great combo (if allowed) for similar points to the panthers.
I'm not sure the armoured pios is the best fit- auflklarung for extra MG dice or even foot troops to get an extra AT asset in would be my bet.
I've always wanted to run a Lehr force baked up by 3x 88s :)
Craig
Yeah, most of our games are LateWar so thats where my thinking is, and marders seem out for some reason, other than maybe the v3forces list?
DeleteMust admit, it doesnt take an 'artillery park' to ruin the GPGs day, most any template weapon will do... Most 4 gun batteries get 2 observors, and it rare you can hide from both...and theres often the AOP floating about too...
I dont think I need more MG fire, and its one of the reasons I dont tend to take the GPG Heavy platoon... two GPGs mounted up spit out 38 dice, so probably dont need more, but their firepower is naff all good so cant dig infantry out of fox holes, all they do is pin them down for an assault, which is still useful...
Its always interesting gather more peoples opinions of the lists, but often makes me wonder then at the list authors/creators - why bother putting in force options that 'dont work', to some peoples opinions? Hence I usually end up trying them all out... Surely the Armoured pios are in the list for a reason? Same can be said for many other support options... I guess as Paul has often said to me, you have to have a plan for your troop choices and stick with it... often I have used support platoons to 'try them out' with little real idea how best they fit in with the 'overall plan' - usual result - disaster...
I think sometimes I listen to a lot of advice, or read battle reps etc, then get into a muddle at some of the varied opinions and you are back to square one...
Lehr with 88s? Are you thinking general list, or mostly defensive against tanks?
General list- a mate down here likes to run 3x 88s with Lehr and it makes for a very interesting little force.
DeleteI've tried several times to work armoured pios into lists but never come up with one I liked.
Craig
Hmm sounds interesting... I may go back to looking at Lehr, simply for the larger platoon sizes giving a better stamina through the assault, and indeed getting to assault at all... but they are only confident, which I am finding a constant handicap...
DeleteDas Reich can take Marder IIIMs if you want to go that way.
ReplyDeleteGiven what you're looking for, I'd head towards the Bridge by Bridge lists. Here are a couple of examples that have Gepanzerts but retain the infantry rating. Both can have a nine-strong assault element with the second option having Pioneers as well! StuGs and StuH 42s for AT work and stripping AT guns away. I like Spindler best :)
Spindler 1750
SS HQ + 2 faust, 2 schreck
SS PanzerPioneer Pt + faust
SS PanzerPioneer Pt + faust
SS Gepanzert Aufklar Plt + faust (7 half-tracks!)
SS Scout Platoon
SS Nebelwerfers x 3
Heer 3 x StuG G
Heer 3 x StuH 42
Kampf Arnheim 1740
SS HQ + 2 faust, 2 schreck
SS GepanzertPzGren Plt + faust and half-tracks
Heer Pioneer Platoon + supply wagon and faust
SS Pak 40s x 3 (can attach to either)
SS Nebelwerfers x 3
SS Mobilwagons x 2
SS Light Inf Gun x 2
Heer 3 x StuG G
Heer 3 x StuH 42
Yeah I just spotted, the SS GPGs (Das Reich and Totenkopf) can take Marders, so may look at that...
DeleteI am really unsure about the BBB lists... I just have it in my head that the BBB Armham themed lists need to be able to beat Brit Paras whilst attacking the Paras who are defending in a typical No Retreat... if they cant do that then they are not viable... The Spindler list is infantry and will have to foot slog across board for several turns, and not get shot up or splattered by Arty on the way in, and their foot scouts have a limited ability at pushing back any ambush effectively... and one round of fire from Brit 6+17pdrs will gut the StuHs and StuGs...
The Arnheim list has some mobilty with the GPG, but no recce at all, and will probably run into the same problems...
I just had a game with Paul tonight, against Brit Paras defending No Retreat with my above Totenkopf list attacking... (no doubt Paul may offer up a brief AAR...)
I got into assault positions with three platoons across his front line, for a 2nd turn assault, but Paul had big platoons with many combat attachments, and made good use of pickets... so I gotin, killed a couple of teams and in the counter assault was gutted twice, and then didnt bother going in with the 3rd, and called it...
Paul said I should try and use mobility to skirt round the defenders weaker sides and head for the back, but keeping the line held with a threat of armour to the front... sounds great in practice but whenever I have tried anything subtle like this with the GPGs they get whacked by a template somewhere, and his 17pdrs would clean up my tanks in front... so I just don't see it... perhaps its simply time to retire the GPGs as a lost causes, and just do what the Germans did in Late war, defend with infantry and either gradually get beaten back anyway, or hang on by the skin of your teeth... which will result in endless grinding games... which doesn't thrill me...
... feeling a bit worn down...
Poor Scott! Craig and I did warn you about the list :)
ReplyDeleteI think I have written this on your blog before, but my first army were Gepanzerts. I lost my first ten event games and a number of friendlies 1-6 before selling them to a fellow in Auckland. They just didn't seem viable.
Once I had played and hundred or so games with US Paras and Soviet Guards (both Fearless so perhaps you're on the right track)I got the Sdkfz 251 bug again and got a force painted. They are difficult to use, no doubt, but they are effective when played correctly. My advice based on your reports above is that you need to adapt to the mission and terrain - making a list to 'beat Brit Paras' just wont fly.
Right off the bat, attacking Brit Paras in No Retreat is going to be hard for any list bar a Soviet Assault Guns Battalion. The best player in the UK uses them and has had a long run of 6-1 wins which is no mean feat. Perhaps you need to ask Paul if you can run the Paras and let him run the Gepanzerts?
The Spindler list is a runner I can tell you that for free! I'd perfer AA to the Nebs probably but there are some serious anti-infantry tools in that box, and playing Brit Paras you have the chance to defend. If they choose night attack, you have the Gepanzerts. If you have to attack, you have six flamethrowers and three breakthrough guns to soften up before the Gepanzerts go in. Don't worry about being on foot...why does that matter? Move in cover, stormtrooper, draw the ambush with the StuGs, blow it away with the StuH 42s blah blah blah.
Don't be disheartened, I have felt the pain and understand where you're coming from!
Thanks Bede.
DeleteThe problem for me becomes manifold... in regards the LW Germans... I struggle to execute any offensive plan with them...
They are for the most part, confident so trying to win and push on through an assault is only 50/50, unless you have a Co nearby but he can only aid one platoon at a time in this way... (theres no british Bulldog)
And they have fairly small platoons, it doesnt take much for them to be beaten off - even if they do push into an attack, theres a reasonable chance you may have lost a team ion way into assault positions, maybe lose another to defensive fire, try and get some hits, but if pickets are well positioned and enemy platoons are any reasonable size, they will have more resiliance and hit back hard... invariable your Germans are beaten off... even if you win the assault, if you have taken a beating doing so, you'll probably quit the field after the assault phase anyway...
If I try and play a waiting game, to soften up the enemy, this just seems to give them more time to soften me up, making an assault less likely to be effective...
I typically play against two local opponents who use either,
Paul; Brit paras (excellent troops), Canadian Armour (now v.good), Soviet hordes (I usually get beaten by numbers whether infantry or armour), and Bretts Armoured rifle yanks; big platoons fast, full of firepower - 50cals, LMGs bazookas, teleporting m10s, priest AOPs etc etc - nowhere to hide, hard to attack, and can grind you down when defending...
I don't want to switch out to play something else as that seems defeating the point... time for a break I think...
Oh and while I remember the issues you and Craig identified; not having enough AT was not an issue in this game as Paul had no tanks..., so I had three infantry platoons, backed up by tanks support, recce and artillery, fighting half Pauls army, in a no retreat, until his reserves come on... to reiterate, I was assaulting by turn 2 and still couldnt get a break through, and on turn two Paul had got reserves; more paras running up to reinforce the position...
DeleteSo even if I wait to soften him up first, I am just giving him more time to get troops into position as reserves come on...
Unless Paul is stupid with deployment, I just can't see a way through...
BTW he had engineers with barbed wire, which my pioneers got through easily but it did slightly hinder my other troops movements but I don't think it was a major factor in the game...
If I try and bunch up in one area to do a one two attack with two platoons I just seem to be giving him more targets for his artillery templates...
I'll be damned if I can see a way through...
I once beat Pauls Paras in No retreat a couple of years back, using Lehr GPGs... Paul took that loss to heart, learned a lot from it, re-adjusted his force composition and deployment, and I have never come close since, no matter what I have tried...
I really think you need to look at some other missions. No Retreat with this force match-up is always going to be hard on the attacker - so why play it as a friendly all the time? Some match-ups are just crap. Get Paul to run an ISU-122 Battalion against you CTA list in a No Retreat. You'll mother him.
ReplyDeleteIf I had Gepanzerts and was playing Paul in a No Retreat I would want some heavy tanks to take fire while I stripped the AT away. I'd also try to pry teams away one at a time. Who cares about a turn 2 assault? I want to win!! Look at nibbling the flank, head for the back objective, smoke the observers etc...Think basic military tactics, infantry attacking infantry you'll need 3 or 4 to 1 if you want to win. That's why the attacker needs tanks to make the break through.
Just more ramblings.
Really its just my dogged pigheadedness wanting to nut out how to do something - there must be a way, if I can work it out in friendly games then I'll know what to do if it comes up in a tournie...
DeleteI hear what you are saying, I would have loved a tank force over an open field at CTA ;-)
Yeah I am beginning to ponder that attacking the Paras is just nuts as they are some of the best melee troops in the game FV + British Bulldog, so am coming round to your thinking - shoot them up first before committing to anything. Targeting one team at a time is interesting, smoking observers is another good point too...
Thanks for your ramblings :-)